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Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

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tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

Hi, Gang!



I just had a good conversation with Sebastien at Zenith, and got a bit more information that might be helpful when making decisions about the upcoming upgrades to the Zenith 601/650 series.



First, Sebastien estimates that the full upgrade kit will run approximately $300, not including shipping. This represents Zenith's costs in materials alone, including hardware.



Second, Zenith estimates that the net weight increase will average between 5 and 6 pounds, once the old fasteners are removed, new components are installed, and new fasteners are replaced.



Third, they've already started a blog with photos and video on "how to" accomplish the upgrade. As you can imagine, this is an ongoing work in progress, so it's being updated on a periodic basis. And yes, you can post your comments to Zenith as well. Here'e the link:



http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/installing-the-upgrade-package



Personally speaking, 5 or 6 pounds is a lot less than I was imagining after looking at the drawings, so maybe there's a bit less pressure to install the lighter weight Grove gear. On the other hand, I can't think of a better time to do it and get 10 more pounds of useful load, so I'm going to keep looking into the logistics of a group buy. As has been posted previously here, the Grove gear lists for $1347, and gun drilled brake lines adds another $100 per gear leg. Robbie Grove said we could expect a 10 to 15 percent discount off of list if we got 10 or so buyers together.



Don't forget that installing the Grove gear requires an adapter block to allow the narrower Grove gear to fit snugly in the existing gear channel, and this is manufactured by Zenair in Canada. I missed talking to them about cost and availability earlier today, but will follow up tomorrow.



Frankly, I think this is all good news from Zenith, and they deserve a lot of credit for delivering an enhancement that really strengthens the airframe, and will give us enhanced peace of mind while flying. Kudos to Chris and sons for stepping up to the challenge, and keeping the cost down to a bare minimum.



And before I forget, a big THANK YOU! to all of the veteran and current servicemen and women in our Zenith family! Without their sacrifices, we would not have the freedoms we take for granted today. Building and flying your own airplane would be nothing more than a fanciful dream...



Rick Lindstrom

Zenvair 601 N42KP



..and proud parent of a US Marine.

Louie928

Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Mosier, OR USA

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

Rick,

I'll be interested in a Grove gear if I can't get the composite gear. The composite is my first choice, but I'm having trouble getting in contact with ComLet.

_________________
Louis W. Ott

601XL-B Corvair

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

I haven't totally rejected the composite gear, I'd just like to know more about it (given CZAW history with other items). Maybe someone has some history they'd like to share?



Mathieu at Zenair said he'd be willing to discount the adapter blocks for the Grove gear, if we did a group buy. He said he'd provide both side somewhere in the $150 neighborhood.



Rick



--

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

That sounds like a good price to me, assuming that he is talking about the 

complete CZAW attachment package. I have been collecting information on the 

CZAW gear attachment. I'll attach a couple of photos that I got courtesy of 

Martin Pohl. One thing that I hadn't anticipated is that there appears to 

be a steel channel all the way across the bottom of fuselage. That would 

probably take something away from the weight advantage of the composite 

gear, but I don't know how much. Another thing is that the CZAW axle mount 

includes a standoff. Presumably that is to provide a bit of separation 

between the gear leg and the (potentially) hot brake disk. Note the 

composite gear leg does not go inside the wheel pants, unlike the standard 

aluminum gear. Hopefully, Mat would include that in the package.



Terry



At 04:08 PM 11/18/2009 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I haven't totally rejected the composite gear, I'd just like to know more 

about it (given CZAW history with other items). Maybe someone has some 

history they'd like to share?



Mathieu at Zenair said he'd be willing to discount the adapter blocks for 

the Grove gear, if we did a group buy. He said he'd provide both side 

somewhere in the $150 neighborhood.



Rick


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;

Balancing the ailerons and working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

LHusky

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

I have a complete set of CZAW landing gear.  I have all the  attachments, wheels, wheel pants and the lightweight gold wheels that comes with  the CZAW planes, front strut and everything needed to install.  The steel  channel your talking about is not steel. It is just a gear channel, just like  the one for the standard gear.  The difference is the depth of this  channel.  The standard channel that comes with a US kit will not work with  the composite gear.  A new channel will have to be made.  I am looking  for that channel now, or I will sell my gear and stick the Zenith gear back  on.  As far as any additional weight, the only attachment that is different  is 2 attachments that go inside the channel and 4 aluminum stiffeners that go  along the channel inside the cabin.  As far as weight savings, I have both  sets on hand and it is 31 lbs savings on weight.  If you would like some  more details on the attachments, email me off list and I will send them to  you.  I have pictures of the attachments and everything else.  

  

 Larry Husky 

 Madras, Oregon 

  

  In a message dated 11/18/2009 8:07:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  ttp44(at)rkymtn.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  That    sounds like a good price to me, assuming that he is talking about the    

complete CZAW attachment package. I have been collecting information on    the 

CZAW gear attachment. I'll attach a couple of photos that I got    courtesy of 

Martin Pohl. One thing that I hadn't anticipated is that there    appears to 

be a steel channel all the way across the bottom of fuselage.    That would 

probably take something away from the weight advantage of the    composite 

gear, but I don't know how much. Another thing is that the CZAW    axle mount 

includes a standoff. Presumably that is to provide a bit of    separation 

between the gear leg and the (potentially) hot brake disk. Note    the 

composite gear leg does not go inside the wheel pants, unlike the    standard 

aluminum gear. Hopefully, Mat would include that in the    package.



Terry



At 04:08 PM 11/18/2009 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I    haven't totally rejected the composite gear, I'd just like to know more    

about it (given CZAW history with other items). Maybe someone has some    

history they'd like to share?



Mathieu at Zenair said    he'd be willing to discount the adapter blocks for 

the Grove gear, if    we did a group buy. He said he'd provide both side 

somewhere in the    $150 neighborhood.



Rick


	




Terry Phillips     ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o    .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;

Balancing the ailerons and    working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/   	


  [quote][b]

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

Hi, Terry, and thanks for the photos! They really do explain what the composite gear is all about in the 601 installation. I can certainly see how this configuration saves beaucoup weight over the stock, or even Grove, metal gear.



Certainly not as visually clean an installation, what with the axle stand-off, but it's always about trade-offs, isn't it? I can't tell if the installation is all blind rivets and bolts, or if there are solid rivets through the outer brackets.



Thanks again for taking the time to elevate the discussion. I learn something new here every day.



Rick



do not archive



--

LHusky

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

No solid rivets.  It attaches the same way the Zenith attachments  attach per the CZAW plans.

 Larry Husky 

 Madras, Oregon 

  In a message dated 11/18/2009 8:39:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  tigerrick(at)mindspring.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith601-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom    <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com>

Hi, Terry, and thanks for the photos!    They really do explain what the composite gear is all about in the 601    installation. I can certainly see how this configuration saves beaucoup weight    over the stock, or even Grove, metal gear.

Certainly not as visually    clean an installation, what with the axle stand-off, but it's always about    trade-offs, isn't it? I can't tell if the installation is all blind rivets and    bolts, or if there are solid rivets through the outer brackets.

Thanks    again for taking the time to elevate the discussion. I learn something new    here every day.

Rick

do not archive

-----Original    Message-----

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>

Sent:    Nov 18, 2009 10:46 PM

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:    Re: Re: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear    Mod

That sounds like a good price to me, assuming that he is    talking about the 

complete CZAW attachment package. I have been    collecting information on the 

CZAW gear attachment. I'll attach a    couple of photos that I got courtesy of 

Martin Pohl. One thing that I    hadn't anticipated is that there appears to 

be a steel channel all the    way across the bottom of fuselage. That would 

probably take something    away from the weight advantage of the composite 

gear, but I don't know    how much. Another thing is that the CZAW axle mount 

includes a    standoff. Presumably that is to provide a bit of separation 

between    the gear leg and the (potentially) hot brake disk. Note the 

composite    gear leg does not go inside the wheel pants, unlike the standard    

aluminum gear. Hopefully, Mat would include that in the    package.

Terry

At 04:08 PM 11/18/2009 -0500, you    wrote:

>I haven't totally rejected the composite gear, I'd just like    to know more 

>about it (given CZAW history with other items). Maybe    someone has some 

>history they'd like to    share?

>

>Mathieu at Zenair said he'd be willing to    discount the adapter blocks for 

>the Grove gear, if we did a group    buy. He said he'd provide both side 

>somewhere in the $150    neighborhood.

>

>Rick

Terry    Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis    MT

ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps    are done;

Balancing the ailerons and working on the    wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/   ========================;  nbsp;             (And Get Some AWESOME FREE     to find   Gifts  tric  re  b  k you for  p;                        -Matt Dralle,    List  ========================   Use the  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ==================================================

  [quote][b]

dougsire

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

If you have never seen it before, there is an interesting video on the Grove site of a drop test simulating a hard (probably extremely hard) landing, http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html.  What I find interesting is how the Grove gear dissipates the energy by deflecting down in the middle.   If you have two separate legs, then somehow the fuselage would have to absorb that energy.

_________________
Doug Sire 601XL
Do Not Archive

pavel569

Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 77

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

Actually, last Friday I've sent an email to the Czech company that makes the gear - Comlet.cz to ask for prices, pictures, drawings, specifications etc. So far no answer. I've even tried to call them today but no one at the company picks up the phone.

_________________
Pavel
CA
Zodiac 601XL
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings, fuselage, canopy done ...
"do not archive"

jfowler120(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod

While the Grove gear may do a great job in a hard landing, the real problem 

with the 601XL is when the nose gear whacks down in a hard landing.  I say 

that having done so -- and had plenty of firewall and stiffener damage.  As 

an aside -- check the phenolic block at the bottom of the nose gear strut 

every 50 hours or so.  If there is a fore and aft elongation there have been 

some landings that the nose gear didn't take too well.



Karl



--------------------------------------------------

From: "dougsire" <dsire(at)imt.net>

Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:36 PM

To: <zenith601-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Zenith 601/650 Upgrades, Grove Gear Mod



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 If you have never seen it before, there is an interesting video on the 

 Grove site of a drop test simulating a hard (probably extremely hard) 

 landing, http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html.  What I find 

 interesting is how the Grove gear dissipates the energy by deflecting down 

 in the middle.   If you have two separate legs, then somehow the fuselage 

 would have to absorb that energy.



 --------

 Doug Sire 601XL

 Do Not Archive





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