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ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Diesel-Air engines??? |
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I was offered a prototype to install in a EUropa, albeit at that time it was
"estimated" at 100kg weight (+exhaust, +radiators, +water, +oil, +heavier
battery, +bigger battery etc ..and so it goes...).
However, both this engine and (IMHO) the WAM are to heavy for a Europa, if
it is to retain its originally intended "mission profile".
But if you enjoy experimenting and are prepared to compromise the overall
performance of the Europa, then it could be for you!
This comment will open old wounds, but look at just how successful the
Subaru has been (or why is it that Subaru-Europas command a relatively poor
resale value, sometimes with the statement "..would make good Rotax
conversion project....").
Duncan McF.
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BEBERRY(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: Diesel-Air engines??? |
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Great idea - until you look at the price!
Patrick
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n9zes(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Diesel-Air engines??? |
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Duncan McFadyean wrote:
| Quote: |
I was offered a prototype to install in a EUropa, albeit at that time it was
"estimated" at 100kg weight (+exhaust, +radiators, +water, +oil, +heavier
battery, +bigger battery etc ..and so it goes...).
However, both this engine and (IMHO) the WAM are to heavy for a Europa, if
it is to retain its originally intended "mission profile".
But if you enjoy experimenting and are prepared to compromise the overall
performance of the Europa, then it could be for you!
This comment will open old wounds, but look at just how successful the
Subaru has been (or why is it that Subaru-Europas command a relatively poor
resale value, sometimes with the statement "..would make good Rotax
conversion project....").
Duncan McF.
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Thanks for the comments everyone. The Rotax is a great engine and a
good match for the Europa, indeed. But, to me, "real engines don't have
sparkplugs". I'll put a diesel wherever I can.
On that same note, I realize that there are few options that are as
proven, reliable, and overall good performing as the Rotax. Coming up
with a diesel as light and compact as the Rotax with the same power
output isn't going to be easy. And, the Rotax has a pretty darn good
TBO on top of that, save the issues with the sprag clutches and kickback.
We've got a long way to go before we're flying ours, due to a 'family
detour' of having a wonderful son to raise, but he's a big-time
prop-head, so I've got a great helper to start into learning.
Chris
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UVTReith(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: Diesel-Air engines??? |
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Hello, to all.
ecofly offers beside the smart-Brabus engine also a diesel-engine version.
Power is only 60HP but with a high torque moment.
They sold recently some of this engines to the US Airforce for missiles.
Total firewall forward weigh, filled, with all parts incl. motorframe,
except prop is about 100 kg.
Beside this there is an electronic motor management system.
All to see - also in english - under _www.ecofly.de_ (http://www.ecofly.de)
Have a nice "Europa" time.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith / UVT Reith
XS monwheel, short wing with smart-Brabus engine/Woodcomp 3-blade fix.
Ready early summer.
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nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: Diesel-Air engines??? |
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| Quote: | Thanks for the comments everyone. The Rotax is a great engine and a
good match for the Europa, indeed. But, to me, "real engines don't have
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sparkplugs". I'll put a diesel wherever I can.<
If you are set on having a diesel you might be better considering the
Wilksch as it has already flown in a Europa. This might save you a lot
of development work. As Ivan Shaw said, there is often more work in
installing a new engine type than building the airframe.
If your Europa is a monowheel I would be especially cautious about
fitting a heavier engine for two reasons.
1. An aft C of G with the monowheel eases handling during take-off and
landing. To keep the C of G aft with a heavy engine will need the
battery right back in the tail, especially if a well equipped panel
and/or a VP prop are fitted.
2. The extra inertia in both the directional and the pitching axis does
make a monowheel slightly more difficult to control particularly on hard
runways. There was quite a noticeable increase of incidents in the early
days of Subaru powered monowheel Europas on hard runways. Diesel engines
and Lycomings weigh in at or greater than the Subaru.
I think the future for light aviation is the diesel but the Europa is
the wrong airframe. Now that it is possible to get diesels around the
weight of an equivalent Lycoming the time has come for companies such as
Thielert, Wilksch, Delta Hawk and Diesel-Air. To use any of these
engines successfully you need to start with an airframe which was
designed for an engine of this sort of weight. Here in Europe some of
the Cessnas and Pipers which are coming up for engine overhaul are
substituting the Thielert, particularly in club a/c which get a lot of
flying hours. As well as the fuel being cheaper, as with car diesels,
the efficiency is significantly greater. It is also now possible to buy
a Robin aircraft with a diesel fitted.
Looking at kitplanes, the latest design to offer a diesel is the Lambert
Mission. As well as the usual Lycoming they are also producing a version
with a Delta Hawk diesel. As this aircraft is a 4 seater it is quite a
logical step up for those who wish to have a modern design, like the
Europa, but with a greater payload.
Nigel Charles
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n9zes(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: Diesel-Air engines??? |
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Looking at kitplanes, the latest design to offer a diesel is the Lambert
Mission. As well as the usual Lycoming they are also producing a version
with a Delta Hawk diesel. As this aircraft is a 4 seater it is quite a
logical step up for those who wish to have a modern design, like the
Europa, but with a greater payload.
Nigel Charles
---> Good point Nigel. I agree that since we have the monowheel, we want to stay as close as possible to the original design weights. I really enjoy the ease of handling on the ground our C-140 has, so I hope our monowheel has the same relatively easy handling.
Indeed, a 4 place plane should be our next project, after the Europa, as now we have the need to haul an extra person plus luggage to go on family trips. The Europa won't do, unless we fly both the 140 and the Europa. Fun, but not practical considering the wide difference in cruise speeds.
Looks like I'll have an excuse to build another plane when we finish the Europa. Oh darn! 
Chris
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