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garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
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 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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Being VERY electrically challenged, I'm hoping some of my smarter Europa friends can help point me in the right direction to solve a recent problem. I have an R.C. Allen electric artificial horizon instrument which began to "tumble" several months ago. I returned it to the factory and they said it tested OK, but replaced the bearings anyway. I reinstalled it, but same thing happened. When I telephoned the factory they suggested that perhaps I wasn't getting full electrical power to the unit. I'm assuming by that they mean 13.2 volts (2.2 volts per battery cell, times 6 cells). The voltmeter in my panel reads 11.9 volts with radio, GPS and transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I turn off the radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads 003.............whatever that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to 5200 increases the voltmeter reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a voltage problem? If so, why? I've been flying my trigear 914 for 6 years without this problem, and have not added any additional electrical equipment to the plane in the 6 years. My battery is 2 months old. Should I be looking at my alternator.........or my regulator/rectifier..........or what? Is there a way to turn up the juice (volts) going to my artificial horizon? How would I go about trouble shooting this problem? What fixes are most likely? If you respond, please remember the first 4 words in this email! Thanks in advance.
Garry Stout
914 tri, 460 hours, 6 years flying
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asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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The voltage and amps you refer to are from the main electrical bus. You
could have a bad connection between the main bus and the attitude
indicator. If you hook up a volt meter to the terminals of the attitude
indicator, that should tell you whether you are getting the full
voltage under load.
Alternatively, if your panel-mount ammeter is a real ammeter, you
should be able to tell how much extra current the attitude indicator is
drawing, and compare that to the manufacturer's specifications. Or you
can hook up a digital multimeter in series with your battery and do the
same measurement.
--- Garry <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Being VERY electrically challenged, I'm hoping some of my smarter
Europa friends can help point me in the right direction to solve a
recent problem. I have an R.C. Allen electric artificial horizon
instrument which began to "tumble" several months ago. I returned it
to the factory and they said it tested OK, but replaced the bearings
anyway. I reinstalled it, but same thing happened. When I
telephoned the factory they suggested that perhaps I wasn't getting
full electrical power to the unit. I'm assuming by that they mean
13.2 volts (2.2 volts per battery cell, times 6 cells). The
voltmeter in my panel reads 11.9 volts with radio, GPS and
transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I turn off the
radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads
003.............whatever that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to
5200 increases the voltmeter reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a
voltage problem? If so, why? I've been flying my trigear 914 for 6
years without this !
problem, and have not added any additional electrical equipment to
the plane in the 6 years. My battery is 2 months old. Should I be
looking at my alternator.........or my
regulator/rectifier..........or what? Is there a way to turn up the
juice (volts) going to my artificial horizon? How would I go about
trouble shooting this problem? What fixes are most likely? If you
respond, please remember the first 4 words in this email! Thanks in
advance.
Garry Stout
914 tri, 460 hours, 6 years flying
|
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.sarangan.org
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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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Bob,
For the gyro to topple in flight (excluding aerobatics) it is likely that
the gyro is slowing down. I would suspect the integrity of the 12V supply
to the instrument. Check the connections or better still, run a new 12V
supply to the gyro to see if the problem goes away.
regards,
Mike
Do not archive.
---
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davedeford(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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Garry,
Besides the possibilities you mentioned, you might check for excessive
voltage drops across the connections and also across the circuit breaker.
We recently had our strobe lights fail, with no voltage at the strobe power
supply connector. When it was unplugged, the voltage read just fine. The
circuit breaker had a high internal resistance, so the voltage disappeared
under load, but looked all right with only a high-impedance meter checking
the voltage. A new circuit breaker cured the problem.
Dave DeFord
N135TD
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Troy Maynor
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Being VERY electrically challenged, I'm hoping some of my smarter Europa
friends
can help point me in the right direction to solve a recent problem. I have
an R.C. Allen electric artificial horizon instrument which began to "tumble"
several
months ago. I returned it to the factory and they said it tested OK, but
replaced the bearings anyway. I reinstalled it, but same thing happened.
When I telephoned the factory they suggested that perhaps I wasn't getting
full
electrical power to the unit. I'm assuming by that they mean 13.2 volts
(2.2
volts per battery cell, times 6 cells). The voltmeter in my panel reads
11.9
volts with radio, GPS and transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I
turn off the radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads
003.............whatever
that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to 5200 increases the voltmeter
reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a voltage problem? If so, why? I've
been flying my trigear 914 for 6 years without this problem, and have not
added
any additional electrical equipment to the plane in the 6 years. My battery
is 2 months old. Should I be looking at my alternator.........or my
regulator/rectifier..........or
what? Is there a way to turn up the juice (volts) going
to my artificial horizon? How would I go about trouble shooting this
problem?
What fixes are most likely? If you respond, please remember the first 4
words in this email! Thanks in advance.
Garry Stout
914 tri, 460 hours, 6 years flying
| Quote: | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
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Gary,
For what it's worth, I was suprised when testing my panel the first time. I
had a battery connected that read 12.2 volts to the panel and the off flag
would not go away until I put a 1.5volt D battery in series with it. Those
RC Allens, in my opinion, are too sensitive to low voltage. But that's what
I am stuck with for now. It irritates me to think that the big bucks it
costed me could have almost paid for a Dynon instrument that does more.
I am sure there is a voltage drop somewhere. Keep looking.
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
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europa flugzeug fabrik
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 65
Location: North Coast, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Shortage |
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| garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com wrote: | | The voltmeter in my panel reads 11.9 volts with radio, GPS and transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I turn off the radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads 003.............whatever that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to 5200 increases the voltmeter reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a voltage problem? |
Before condemning the RC Allen, what's going on with your charging system and/or instrumentation? A fully charged battery in good condition will not draw 3A from the alternator at 12.3 V. Even in not quite new condition, it should draw nothing. Depending upon the battery construction and chemistry, 13.8V is a typical float charge. However, the way airplanes are used, 14.0 or even 14.2V is tolerable. The first thing I would check is the battery voltage at cruise RPM after the alternator has had a chance to replenish starting juice, with a digital multimeter of presumed accuracy. If you don't want to spring for a Fluke or a Keithley, I have found that either Crafstman or Radio Shack can be accurate enough.
My RC Allen unflags at 12.3V, and on the way down, flags at 11-something. So I presume the low voltage if what you report is accurate is adequate volts, at least not to cause it to tumble. This is an FAA-approved instrument, common in big complex airplanes. One could easily have only low twelves on volts at night, on an ILS approach in the soup. We wouldn't want it to tumble, would we now? 
Also, does it tumble on the ground or just in flight? In any event, after you've sorted out any voltage prob, and need advice on the gyro, post back. I have a tax client who has run an instrument repair shop since only around 1970. She answers relevant questions candidly.
Fred F.
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erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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Gary,
I also have the 914 with an RC Allen AI. I find that when at idle the AI drops offline, with the "OFF" flag being displayed. However, as soon as I am off idle the unit will come back online. I find that with the Rotax generator the main bus voltage is usually just above 12 volts at idle (which is close to the oven-circuit battery voltage. As RPM increase the output of the generator will increase and the main bus voltage will rise to about 13.2 volts. In your e-mail you mention a bus voltage of 12.1 volts with GPS, radio, transponder, and the AI all on at 4900-5200 RPM. At this engine speed the output of the generator should be around 13.2 volts. I suspect the problem is not with AI but rather your electrical system. Since you haven't added anything electrical to your plane in 6-years I suspect you are experiencing degradation of your electrical system due to most likely oxidation at the electrical connections. I would first try cleaning the electrical connectors from the voltage regulator to the main bus, especially the ground wire to the case of the voltage regulator. If that doesn't fix the problem there are some easy tests you can perform on the generator. Give that a try and report back.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
Being VERY electrically challenged, I'm hoping some of my smarter Europa
friends
can help point me in the right direction to solve a recent problem. I have
an R.C. Allen electric artificial horizon instrument which began to
"tumble" several
months ago. I returned it to the factory and they said it tested OK, but
replaced the bearings anyway. I reinstalled it, but same thing happened.
When I telephoned the factory they suggested that perhaps I wasn't getting full
electrical power to the unit. I'm assuming by that they mean 13.2 volts (2.2
volts per battery cell, times 6 cells). The voltmeter in my panel reads 11.9
volts with radio, GPS and transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I
turn off the radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads
003.............whatever
that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to 5200 increases the voltmeter
reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a voltage problem? If so, why? I've
been flying my trigear 914 for 6 years without this problem, and have not added
any additional electrical equipment to the plane in the 6 years. My battery
is 2 months old. Should I be looking at my alternator.........or my
regulator/rectifier..........or
what?
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Gary,
I also have the 914 with an RC Allen AI. I find that when at idle the AI drops offline, with the "OFF" flag being displayed. However, as soon as I am off idle the unit will come back online.I find that with the Rotaxgeneratorthe main bus voltage is usually just above 12 volts at idle (which is close to the oven-circuit battery voltage. As RPM increase the output of thegenerator will increase and the main bus voltage will rise to about 13.2 volts. Inyour e-mail you mention a bus voltage of 12.1 volts with GPS, radio,transponder, and theAIall on at4900-5200 RPM. At this engine speed the output of the generator should be around 13.2 volts. I suspect the problem is not with AI but rather your electrical system. Since you haven't added anything electrical to your plane in 6-years I suspect you are experiencingdegradationof your electrical system due tomost likelyoxidation atthe electrical connections. I would first try cleaning the electrical connectors from the voltage regulator to the main bus, especially the ground wire to the case of the voltage regulator. If that doesn't fix the problem there are some easy tests you can perform on the generator. Give that a try and report back.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
Being VERY electrically challenged, I'm hoping some of my smarter Europa
friends
can help point me in the right direction to solve a recent problem. I have
an R.C. Allen electric artificial horizon instrument which began to
"tumble" several
months ago. I returned it to the factory and they said it tested OK, but
replaced the bearings anyway. I reinstalled it, but same thing happened.
When I telephoned the factory they suggested that perhaps I wasn't getting full
electrical power to the unit. I'm assuming by that they mean 13.2 volts (2.2
volts per battery cell, times 6 cells). The voltmeter in my panel reads 11.9
volts with radio, GPS and transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I
turn off the radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads
003.............whatever
that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to 5200 increases the voltmeter
reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a voltage problem? If so, why? I've
been flying my trigear 914 for 6 years without this problem, and have not added
any additional electrical equipment to the plane in the 6 years. My battery
is 2 months old. Should I be looking at my alternator.........or my
regulator/rectifier..........or
what?
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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topglock(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: Electrical Shortage |
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Garry,
I had a similar low voltage problem, once. Check the fuse in your
rectifier system. Mine was blown and therefore, did not charge the
battery...
Jeff - N55XS
149 hrs, with new autopilot installed and checked out...
Garry wrote:
| Quote: |
Being VERY electrically challenged, I'm hoping some of my smarter Europa friends can help point me in the right direction to solve a recent problem. I have an R.C. Allen electric artificial horizon instrument which began to "tumble" several months ago. I returned it to the factory and they said it tested OK, but replaced the bearings anyway. I reinstalled it, but same thing happened. When I telephoned the factory they suggested that perhaps I wasn't getting full electrical power to the unit. I'm assuming by that they mean 13.2 volts (2.2 volts per battery cell, times 6 cells). The voltmeter in my panel reads 11.9 volts with radio, GPS and transponder turned on, and reads 12.1 volts when I turn off the radio, GPS, and transponder. My Ammeter reads 003.............whatever that means. Increasing my RPM from 4900 to 5200 increases the voltmeter reading by about .1 volt. Do I have a voltage problem? If so, why? I've been flying my trigear 914 for 6 years without this !
problem, and have not added any additional electrical equipment to the plane in the 6 years. My battery is 2 months old. Should I be looking at my alternator.........or my regulator/rectifier..........or what? Is there a way to turn up the juice (volts) going to my artificial horizon? How would I go about trouble shooting this problem? What fixes are most likely? If you respond, please remember the first 4 words in this email! Thanks in advance.
Garry Stout
914 tri, 460 hours, 6 years flying
|
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