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Orange peeling

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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Hey List:

   

  I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on fiberglass cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned 5 to 1 with reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature critical? Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart heavier now. Any advice appreciated. 

Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

		

---------------------------------

 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Marco Orange peel is the opposite of a run.  To make a run, or stop orange 

peel,  turn up the paint and move closer to the work.   I would suggest 

turning up the air pressure and paint then move faster getting the paint 

"wet".   See how much you can do on a scrap before making a run.  Most 

single stage enamels can be wet sanded with 800-1500 grit then buffed to 

shine whether it is a run or orange peel you are fixing.

    Ron NB Ore

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: "Matronics.com" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Orange peeling

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:35:08 -0800 (PST)






Hey List:



   I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on fiberglass 

cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned 5 to 1 with 

reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature critical? 

Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart heavier now. Any 

advice appreciated.

Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX



---------------------------------

  Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Polyfiber Eurothanes are a different formulation - I think - since I 

painted, but sanding and polishing didn't work for me.  It was explained 

that with the Aerothane, the solids will drop to the bottom of the paint 

layer and the "clear" will float to the surface.  That is exactly what it 

looked like when I color sanded and polished.  The sanded part had a matt 

surface no matter what I did.  I don't know about the present product.



Lowell



---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Marko,  in my experience which is admittedly limited, temperature can be 

critical and orange peel can be a problem in warm weather when the reducer 

flashes off too soon.  If you are painting in a warm environment you will 

need a higher temperature reducer that will allow the paint to level before 

it flashes off.  Be careful with applying the Aerothane too heavily because 

it's milk like consistency will run very easily.  When I painted, I had the 

best success with numerous lite coats with a slow reducer.



The worst experience I had was the time I inadvertently used polyspray 

reducer instead of the Aerothane reducer.  Fast flash and lots of orange 

peel.



Lowell

---

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Thanks Lowell and Ron. I'll mess with those variables and see what happens. I'm not using Aerothane on the pod. Poly Fiber Enamel (single stage?) was recommended for fiberglass. Reduces with Xylene. If I can't get smooth finish with next coat, i'll try wet sanding to a gloss or if really fed up, take pod and what's left of quart to local autobody shop. Too cold to paint outside and wife justifiably complaining about me stinkin up the basement.

   

  Marco

   

  do not archive



Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

  



Marko, in my experience which is admittedly limited, temperature can be 

critical and orange peel can be a problem in warm weather when the reducer 

flashes off too soon. If you are painting in a warm environment you will

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: Orange peeling

Marco-

Is it really Stits you are using or Poly-Fiber? If it says Stits on the 

can it may be old stuff. Are you sure about the Xylene for reducing 

Poly-Fiber Enamel? I know that the P-F Enamel reducer that I have says 

"contains Xylene", but maybe they put a little orange peel eliminator 

in the P-F Enamel Reducer, and don't say so. I might be a sucker for 

the "brand name" stuff, but I did not have a problem with any of my 

painting...over fabric with Poly-Tone, or over fiberglass, metal, etc., 

with P-F Enamel, using the P-F suggested products.  And did you first 

use EP-420 Epoxy Primer to prime the fiberglass? If you want to call an 

expert, try Jim Miller at 1-877-877-3334...he's my guru for all things 

paintable, and a Poly-Fiber dealer.... www.poly-fiber.com/



Lynn



On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 05:35  PM, Marco Menezes wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hey List:



   I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on 

 fiberglass cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned 

 5 to 1 with reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature 

 critical? Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart 

 heavier now. Any advice appreciated.

 Marco Menezes

 Model 2 582 N99KX

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

JeffFowler(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Orange peeling

In a message dated 3/1/2006 2:01:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,  

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com writes:



Thanks  Lowell and Ron. I'll mess with those variables and see what happens. 

I'm not  using Aerothane on the pod. Poly Fiber Enamel (single stage?) was 

recommended  for fiberglass. Reduces with Xylene. If I can't get smooth finish 

with next  coat, i'll try wet sanding to a gloss or if really fed up, take pod 

and what's  left of quart to local autobody shop. Too cold to paint outside and 

wife  justifiably complaining about me stinkin up the  basement

Hello Marco

 

 I'm new to the list and, while not having worked with the brand of  enamel 

you are using, I noticed some clues you put in this reply that might be a  

small part of the problem. Not enough ventilation where you are painting will  

mean that overspray will get back on what you are painting and cause "some"  

orange peel. Try to paint in an area that is between 70 and 84 degrees. Spraying  

technique has a lot to do with this problem too. What type of spraying setup 

do  you have? There will always be a tiney amount of orange peel effect. Look 

at the  surface of a new car closely in the sun. Just a few thoughts. I don't 

own a full  scale airplane. I joined this board because I got some plans for a 

quarter scale  Kitfox IV and the backround comments will help me detail it out 

when I build  it.

 

Till Next Time,

Jeff

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: Orange peeling

Lynn:

   

  It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning to think it's my spray technique that's the problem.

   

  Marco

  

Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  



Marco-

Is it really Stits you are using or Poly-Fiber? If it says Stits on the 

can it may be old stuff. Are you sure about the Xylene for reducing 

Poly-Fiber Enamel? I know that the P-F Enamel reducer that I have says 

"contains Xylene", but maybe they put a little orange peel eliminator 

in the P-F Enamel Reducer, and don't say so. I might be a sucker for 

the "brand name" stuff, but I did not have a problem with any of my 

painting...over fabric with Poly-Tone, or over fiberglass, metal, etc., 

with P-F Enamel, using the P-F suggested products. And did you first 

use EP-420 Epoxy Primer to prime the fiberglass? If you want to call an 

expert, try Jim Miller at 1-877-877-3334...he's my guru for all things 

paintable, and a Poly-Fiber dealer.... www.poly-fiber.com/



Lynn



On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 05:35 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hey List:



 I'm having a terrible time spray painting Stitts enamel on 

 fiberglass cargo pod. Keep getting that "orange peel" effect. Thinned 

 5 to 1 with reducer as suggested on can, same problem. Is temperature 

 critical? Equipment? I'm tired of sanding and pod is amost a quart 

 heavier now. Any advice appreciated.

 Marco Menezes

 Model 2 582 N99KX


	






		

---------------------------------

 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: Orange peeling

I sold dupont automotive paint to body shops and the public for three years. 

  Many amatuers had a hard time following directions or using the right 

tools/ technique.  Some used laquer primer with fast laquer thinner from the 

hardware store.  This usually dried to cobwebs before it hit the car.  One 

solution was to hold the gun really close to the work (or use slower 

thinner).   Others thought they could take a half hour to put one coat on a 

car.  I can put a coat on a small car in about 5 minutes which allows the 

paint to flow into the starting point instead of overlapping on dry. 

Anywhere the paint dries before the next amount hits will not flow and 

become orange peel.  I have painted bare fiberglass with single stage 

enamels and the main problem I have are pinholes that I had missed in 

repairs.

  It sounds as though you have plenty of paint on to wet sand so try it and 

see. Ron NB Ore.

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Orange peeling

Marco,  



I look forward to sharing flight with you some day since I’m located just a bit south of you in Michigan. 

I considered contacting you offline but decided I may as well share my thoughts with the list.



I've got a Model 1 - in restoration. I'm not actively painting but have done a lot of spraying in the past.

List members are contributing very good info – I don’t want to add clutter to the list. 



My message is that practice makes perfect. 



The line between ‘too much’ paint and ‘too little’ paint is the ‘challenge’ as I see it.  Spray tip and adjustment of spray patterns, etc. best done on a board - get happy before you start painting your part.



Monitoring the wet edge, keeping paint thickness consistent, not too much, not too little.



After proper solvents, appropriate thinning, priming and surface prep comes technique.



Practice with some cheap paint on the sidelines until you get comfortable.



Keep in mind that paint types ‘act’ differently so adjustments will need to be made, mostly related to drying times (due to solvents, temperatures, etc.)

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: Orange peeling

Marco-

Maybe it's the lack of the epoxy primer that's causing the problem. Be 

sure to give Jim Miller a call....he'll know if anyone does, regarding 

Poly-Fiber products. The epoxy primer that P-F uses takes a long time 

to cure...7 days at 70 degrees F....but that's what they recommend, and 

I followed it to a "T" with good results. I can't say that the orange 

peel is a result of NOT using the right primer, but the proper 

foundation is best to build on.

By the way, where are you in Michigan...upper or lower? Answer to my 

email address if you'd like.



Lynn

Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200



On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 10:15  AM, Marco Menezes wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn:



   It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel 

 reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't 

 really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some 

 "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning 

 to think it's my spray technique that's the problem.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Thanks Richard and everyone else who responded to my post. Last coat went on Ok so i'll try to get my finish with some wet sanding. 

   

  Say Richard, did you purchase N120DD from guy in Greenville?

   

   



Richard Rabbers <rira1950(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  



Marco, 



I look forward to sharing flight with you some day since Im located just a bit south of you in Michigan. 

I considered contacting you offline but decided I may as well share my thoughts with the list.



I've got a Model 1 - in restoration. I'm not actively painting but have done a lot of spraying in the past.

List members are contributing very good info I dont want to add clutter to the list. 



My message is that practice makes perfect. 



The line between too much paint and too little paint is the challenge as I see it. Spray tip and adjustment of spray patterns, etc. best done on a board - get happy before you start painting your part.



Monitoring the wet edge, keeping paint thickness consistent, not too much, not too little.



After proper solvents, appropriate thinning, priming and surface prep comes technique.



Practice with some cheap paint on the sidelines until you get comfortable.



Keep in mind that paint types act differently so adjustments will need to be made, mostly related to drying times (due to solvents, temperatures, etc.)



--------

Richard in SW Michigan

Model 1 / 618 lotus floats (restoration)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18744#18744



Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

		

---------------------------------

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Hi Lynn.

   

  If my problem was from lack of primer there's nothing i'm gonna do about that now! I'm about 6nm WSW of Evart (9C8), right under the Hersey MOA. Have to duck the Warthogs now and again. They always seem to be flying lower than they're supposed to.

   

  do not archive



Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  



Marco-

Maybe it's the lack of the epoxy primer that's causing the problem. Be 

sure to give Jim Miller a call....he'll know if anyone does, regarding 

Poly-Fiber products. The epoxy primer that P-F uses takes a long time 

to cure...7 days at 70 degrees F....but that's what they recommend, and 

I followed it to a "T" with good results. I can't say that the orange 

peel is a result of NOT using the right primer, but the proper 

foundation is best to build on.

By the way, where are you in Michigan...upper or lower? Answer to my 

email address if you'd like.



Lynn

Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200



On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn:



 It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel 

 reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't 

 really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some 

 "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning 

 to think it's my spray technique that's the problem.




	




Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Ok, Marco...got you located, about 130-150 miles from me, as "the 

Kitfox flies" to butcher an old saying. Heck, I could probably visit 

you and Deke, and maybe Richard, all on one fill-up this 

summer...yee-haaaaa! oops, sorry...

Lynn

do not archive

On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 03:56  PM, Marco Menezes wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Hi Lynn.

   If my problem was from lack of primer there's nothing i'm gonna do 

 about that now! I'm about 6nm WSW of Evart (9C8), right under the 

 Hersey MOA. Have to duck the Warthogs now and again. They always seem 

 to be flying lower than they're supposed to.

   do not archive

 Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 Marco-

 Maybe it's the lack of the epoxy primer that's causing the problem. Be

 sure to give Jim Miller a call....he'll know if anyone does, regarding

 Poly-Fiber products. The epoxy primer that P-F uses takes a long time

 to cure...7 days at 70 degrees F....but that's what they recommend, and

 I followed it to a "T" with good results. I can't say that the orange

 peel is a result of NOT using the right primer, but the proper

 foundation is best to build on.

 By the way, where are you in Michigan...upper or lower? Answer to my

 email address if you'd like.

 Lynn

 Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200

 On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:

> 

>

> Lynn:

>

> It's a new can of Poly-Fiber enamel, thinned with new PF enamel

> reducer. Did not use epoxy primer first. My reading suggested it wan't

> really necessary on fiberglass that was first sanded to give some

> "tooth." Put another coat on this am with so-so result. I'm beginning

> to think it's my spray technique that's the problem.

>

 Marco Menezes

 Model 2 582 N99KX

 ---------------------------------

 Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Orange peeling

<<Say Richard, did you purchase N120DD from guy in Greenville?>>



Hello Marco, 



I bought my Model 1 in Tampa Florida in the fall of 2004 and trailered it north between Hurricanes. The last storm that passed by Tampa area did some damage to the hanger it was in - about a week after I made my trip north. 



The plane in Greenville (sold on Ebay) looked pretty slick. I tried to connect with the seller - then the buyer, trying to get a copy of a Model 1 builders manual (still trying to find one) I believe the buyer is from New Hampshire. 



regards,



Do not archive

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

Glenn Horne

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 96

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

Lynn,

What type of gun are you using? Is it a gravity feed or a

siphon? If gravity fed set your presser about 18/25 lb at the gun.

If it's a siphon, set the pressure 50/55 lb at the gun. Also make sure the 

paint is thin correctly.

I used aero-thane on my fox and got a smooth job.

Glenn Horne Model II 582



---

Glenn Horne

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 96

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: Orange peeling

It is not for a fabric aircraft. Do not use it.

Glenn Horne  Model II 582

---

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