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Fuel cap water protection?

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c.ennis(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

My 6A spends an appreciable amount of time outside in the weather. I have 

some fuel cap covers from Sporty's, but they are not doing the job.  Some 

time back I remember seeing an ad for a cover which I am convinced will do a 

better job. As I remember it was about 12" in diameter and was constructed 

of a soft plyable rubber or plastic and had lead shot or some other heavy 

material blended in with the rubber. It was heavy and soft and when placed 

over the fuel cap if assumed the shape of the wing surface and effectively 

sealed out water intrusion into the tank through the cap. Its weight and 

plyability assured that it was in contact with the wing surface and would 

not blow off.

If anyone could supply the name of the seller of this or a similar item, I 

would be grateful.

Charlie Ennis

 N60CE 50hrs and counting.

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

Can't speak for anybody else, but I use a fair amount of fuelube (EZ-turn) 

on my fuel caps.  My plane has sat out in the rain for extended periods 

while travelling (5 days in a row of T-storms) and I haven't seen any water 

in the tanks.  I think fuelube on the shaft and O rings does a decent job 

sealing out the water.  Just my personal opinion/experience.



)_( Dan

RV-7 N714D (827 hours)

http://www.rvproject.com



---

alexpeterson(at)earthlink
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Can't speak for anybody else, but I use a fair amount of 

 fuelube (EZ-turn) on my fuel caps.  My plane has sat out in 

 the rain for extended periods while travelling (5 days in a 

 row of T-storms) and I haven't seen any water in the tanks.  

 I think fuelube on the shaft and O rings does a decent job 

 sealing out the water.  Just my personal opinion/experience.

 

 )_( Dan


	


Ah, Dan the warm California Man,



I tried EZ Turn a while back - don't use it if the temperature is going to

be below about freezing.  It becomes really stiff when cold.  There was a

time when the OAT was around 10F where I could NOT get the caps off.

Fortunately, I was at the home base and simply taxied back to the hangar.  I

spent a lot of time getting the crud out of the caps.  I now spray some

Tri-Flow under the O-rings from time to time, which reduces the friction

enough that I can adjust the caps to adequately seal.  It was amazing how

much more I could compress the big o-ring after putting Tri-Flow in there.

I have also used a spray white grease, same effect.



Alex Peterson

RV6-A N66AP 719 hours

Maple Grove, MN

lhelming(at)sigecom.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

I too use fuelube on the big O-ring in the fuel caps.  I recently had my 

plane parked outside for 7 weeks while our runways were widened.  I did not 

find any water in my tanks during the time and it rained quite hard a few 

times during the time.



You could always use a couple pieces of electricians tape and do a good job 

of sealing over the caps.



Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying



---

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

On 27 Feb 2006, at 08:36, Alex Peterson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>



 I tried EZ Turn a while back - don't use it if the temperature is  

 going to

 be below about freezing.  It becomes really stiff when cold.  There  

 was a

 time when the OAT was around 10F where I could NOT get the caps off.

 Fortunately, I was at the home base and simply taxied back to the  

 hangar.  I

 spent a lot of time getting the crud out of the caps.  I now spray  

 some

 Tri-Flow under the O-rings from time to time, which reduces the  

 friction

 enough that I can adjust the caps to adequately seal.  It was  

 amazing how

 much more I could compress the big o-ring after putting Tri-Flow in  

 there.

 I have also used a spray white grease, same effect.


	


Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the same  

effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?



Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

alexpeterson(at)earthlink
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the 

 same effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?

 

 Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

 Ottawa, Canada

 http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8


	


Kevin, I feel they had the same effect.  I don't have a lot of experience

yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a plaguing

problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps.  The difference in the force

needed to lock down the cap is perhaps 20% of what it had been, all else

equal, after lubing them. I simply peel out the big o-ring, clean out

whatever might be in there, and spray a small film of whatever lube in

there, and replace the o-ring.  Each time the cap is actuated when wetted

with fuel, I'm sure some of the lube dissolves, so time will tell how

frequently to re-apply.  I also put some under the clamping mechanism and

around that o-ring also.



There is a fundamental angle of repose problem with the fuel cap design. In

other terms, the angle of the cones is low enough that the large o-ring

refuses to slide radially outward as the two cones are brought together,

unless on puts some sort of lube behind it.  There will be a bit of lube

streaking down the top of the wing, as some of the lube will be "outside"

the fuel seal.  I found that I needed to tighten the adjusting nut after

using lube.



Alex Peterson

RV6-A N66AP 719 hours

Maple Grove, MN

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

 	  Quote: 	
		   ...  I don't have a lot of experience

 yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a plaguing

 problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps.  ...


	


Another option is to use the "Retrofit lockable fuel caps".

http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040822215643234



I have not subjected them to any harsh winters, but the

design seems to be such that they will open and close

easily under all conditions.



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

On 27 Feb 2006, at 20:23, Alex Peterson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>

> 

>



> Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the

> same effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?

>

> Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

> Ottawa, Canada

> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8



 Kevin, I feel they had the same effect.  I don't have a lot of  

 experience

 yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a  

 plaguing

 problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps.  The difference in  

 the force

 needed to lock down the cap is perhaps 20% of what it had been, all  

 else

 equal, after lubing them. I simply peel out the big o-ring, clean out

 whatever might be in there, and spray a small film of whatever lube in

 there, and replace the o-ring.  Each time the cap is actuated when  

 wetted

 with fuel, I'm sure some of the lube dissolves, so time will tell how

 frequently to re-apply.  I also put some under the clamping  

 mechanism and

 around that o-ring also.



 There is a fundamental angle of repose problem with the fuel cap  

 design. In

 other terms, the angle of the cones is low enough that the large o- 

 ring

 refuses to slide radially outward as the two cones are brought  

 together,

 unless on puts some sort of lube behind it.  There will be a bit of  

 lube

 streaking down the top of the wing, as some of the lube will be  

 "outside"

 the fuel seal.  I found that I needed to tighten the adjusting nut  

 after

 using lube.


	


Are you now using just a spray on lubricant, or are you using EZ Turn  

+ a spray on lubricant?



We have some wonderfully clear winter flying days up here, but it can  

be very cold.



Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

alexpeterson(at)earthlink
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

 	  Quote: 	
		   Are you now using just a spray on lubricant, or are you using 

 EZ Turn  

 + a spray on lubricant?

 

 We have some wonderfully clear winter flying days up here, 

 but it can be very cold.

 

 Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

 Ottawa, Canada

 http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8


	


Kevin, no EZ Turn.  It really, really gets stiff when OAT's get cold.  Put

some on something and put it in the freezer.



Mickey, I may consider one of the retrofits at some point, but I'd have to

look at the details of the design to see the sealing mechanism first.



Alex Peterson

RV6-A N66AP 719 hours

Maple Grove, MN

Fred Stucklen

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10
Location: East Windsor, CT

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

It seems to me that there is another issue a work here: the elasticity

of the

"O" rings at low temps. I seem to remember listings (that should be in the

archives) that address this problem.  If I remember correctly, Van utilizes

"O" rings that are not intended for low temperature operation.

 

Fred Stucklen

RV-6A N926RV

   

    

      

alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net <mailto:alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> >

      

       

      > 

<mailto:khorton01(at)rogers.com> >

      > 

      

      > Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the 

      > same effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?

      > 

      > Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

      > Ottawa, Canada

      > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 <http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8> 

      

      Kevin, I feel they had the same effect.  I don't have a lot of

experience

      yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a

plaguing

      problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps.  The difference in the

force

      needed to lock down the cap is perhaps 20% of what it had been, all

else

      equal, after lubing them. I simply peel out the big o-ring, clean out

      whatever might be in there, and spray a small film of whatever lube in

      there, and replace the o-ring.  Each time the cap is actuated when

wetted

      with fuel, I'm sure some of the lube dissolves, so time will tell how

      frequently to re-apply.  I also put some under the clamping mechanism

and

      around that o-ring also.

      

      There is a fundamental angle of repose problem with the fuel cap

design. In

      other terms, the angle of the cones is low enough that the large

o-ring

      refuses to slide radially outward as the two cones are brought

together,

      unless on puts some sort of lube behind it.  There will be a bit of

lube

      streaking down the top of the wing, as some of the lube will be

"outside"

      the fuel seal.  I found that I needed to tighten the adjusting nut

after

      using lube.

      

      Alex Peterson

      RV6-A N66AP 719 hours

      Maple Grove, MN

cgreimer(at)mts.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: Fuel cap water protection?

 	  Quote: 	
		      It seems to me that there is another issue a work here: the elasticity

 of the

 "O" rings at low temps. I seem to remember listings (that should be in the

 archives) that address this problem.  If I remember correctly, Van 

 utilizes

 "O" rings that are not intended for low temperature operation.


	


In cold weather I find it really helps to let the o-rings sit for a minute 

or two after loosening before you try to remove the the caps. Flip the tabs 

up, push down on the mechanism until you feed the bottom cone pop loose, and 

then just let them sit so the o-ring can gradually relax.



I completely trashed one of my original caps trying impatiently to get it 

off at a -22C fuel stop in Fargo, ND. Both caps were both well gummed up 

with Fuel Lube, and that certainly is NOT the way to go for cold weather. I 

installed my replacement caps from Van's as they came out of the box with no 

additional lube, and they've been working pretty well but they still take a 

little prying to get them out below -15C or so.



I think there might be a temperature below which they just aren't coming out 

at all, lube or no lube. I'd be concerned about stopping for fuel where 

it's -25C or colder. Not that I fly much in those temps, but it's not 

unusual for these parts.



Curt

RV-6  375 hrs

Winnipeg

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