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mdx400(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: XPD-4K + C90 with PAC Unilink Aux Input Adaptor - A bit Squ |
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| Quote: | From: "Randy Visentine" <randyman(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: XPD-4K + C90 with PAC Unilink Aux Input Adaptor - A
bit Squirrely???
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 05:09:53 -0500
Even when the iPod is selected on power-up, the C90 still does a quick
power-down/reboot as it re-detects the PAC Unilink Adaptor (but it works
fine after that).
Unfortunately the whole issue just sounds like a compatibility issue with
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the adapter. Though UniLink is a "standard" there are a lot of variances
and hooking up non-standard (and sometimes even standard) gear you can get
bus reset problems. Myself I have two devices on my bus that aren't really
completely Sony standard. One is the MDX-400 which was not officially
intended to be used as a slave, and the other is a Connects2 Sony-Sony
Network Walkman-UniLink integration adapter. At times I'll get random bus
resets (because of the MDX-400) but they don't happen enough to be that
annoying. From the Connects2 adapter sometimes text from the Network
Walkman freezes or stops working until you manually change tracks; also a
few times the adapter has just failed to show up on the changer list and
unplugging it and plugging it back in is the only solution (short of a reset
from the HU).
Of course your problem sounds far more severe unfortunately, which means you
should probably either return the device you're using or try to get the
manufacturer to sort it out with a updated device or firmware update. Since
aftermarket companies don't necessarily have all the information about the
UniLink protocol available like Sony does, aftermarket accessories can have
their problems when used with certain combinations of UniLink devices.
Furthermore even Sony has made their own compatibility problems in rare
cases I believe. For the most part UniLink works pretty well whatever you
connect, but there are quirks 
| Quote: | Once the C90 "Freezes Up" (from powering-up with the C90's internal CD or
AM/FM Tuner selected), I am able to do a "Reset" from the C90's front-panel
"Reset" button, and it works fine after that (until I power off again with
anything other than the iPod selected). But this entails resetting the
C90's Clock and the Display angle every time this happens (but this is MUCH
easier than removing my passenger seat to un-plug the PAC Unilink Adaptor
from the XDP!). So the iPod works, but it is buggy to say the least...
PS - This also happens when I use my XA-C30 3-Input Unilink box into the
XDP-4k (happens with or w/o the XA-C30). Also happens with and without a
Sony 848x CD-Changer connected to the XA-C30.
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Now that^should not be happening. You could have something as easily
overlooked as a ground loop or power line noise that is causing the bus
resets to occur. So you might want to sniff those out if possible. Even if
a ground loop doesn't cause any audible problems (like power on/off pops or
alternator noise), you could still have one occuring between UniLink
components that is causing the problem. Since the XA-C30 has it's own power
connection this could be a possible source of the problem. Also for UniLink
components that have no power connection, you could actually try grounding a
screw on the metal chassis (if applicable) of suspect UniLink components, to
a ground point on the vehicle to see if you get any improvement.
| Quote: | Does anyone make a different Unilink Input Adaptor that does not cause this
behavior with an XDP-4k + C90?
Really, you shouldn't be getting that behaviour, particularly not with an
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XA-C30... I have a feeling it's less the adapter's fault and perhaps the
problem lies elsewhere.
| Quote: | Or is there anything else I can do to
use the Analog RCA Changer input on the XDP-4k? (PS - I need the
C90's AM/FM Tuner, so I need the XDP's "Master" RCA Input for that
functionallity).
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You could use the changer trick but you'd need a "ghost" changer just
playing a CD on repeat telling the XDP to input audio from that input and
then you instead connect it to what you need to input, instead of the
changer's audio output.
| Quote: | Making my own Unilink adaptor is not out of the question
(I have extra Unilink Cables and descent soldering/circuitry skills), but
I'd need a schematic (and I assume it would be a better design than the PAC
Unilink adaptor I already have?).
It might not be out of the question but many have tried and the results have
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never been all that great. If you're really looking to homebrew it you
should check out the GNUNILINK project, if it still exists, anyway...
| Quote: | I have seen the Unilink-to-iPod "Control" type adaptors, but everything I
have read indicates those "lock out" the iPod's front-panel controls, and
force you to use the Sony Head-Unit's controls and display to navigate the
iPod (and we all know you can't read the C90's display before 8PM if your
life depended on it), so I'd prefer to control the iPod from the iPod's
front-panel click-wheel (this rules out the Unilink-to-iPod "Control" type
interfaces IIRC). Is this correct?
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Yes it is correct. This is a limitation that is part of the design of the
iPod. There are two remote modes available for the iPod. Simple and Full.
Full remote mode is required for text/track data/time transfer but using
full remote mode disables the iPod's main unit controls. Simple remote mode
on the other hand can interface the iPod for simple things like track
up/down, play, pause, etc. but in this mode data cannot be transferred from
the iPod to the controlling device; however in simple remote mode the iPod's
controls and display remain active. So it's either/or, you can't have both.
| Quote: | I also have a CDX-805 and a CDX-848x 10-Disc Unilink Changer I'd be willing
to bastardize for this project, but other means are preferred before I kill
a perfectly fine Unilink CD Changer (and I'd need specific instructions
before I attempt this)...
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Why kill one of them??? Just set the changer to analog, put any CD you
don't need in there and put it on repeat all... Instead of connecting the
changer line audio output to the XDP, just connect the iPod's line-level
output and there you go--that's the "changer trick" in a nutshell.
| Quote: | One more Q concerning the iPod - I bought an "iPod Dock Cable" that has RCA
Outs and connections for +12V for charging the iPod's battery. The
benefits
over a 1/8" Headphone Cable are that it bypasses the iPod's Headphone
Amplifier Stage, and provides a true Fixed Level "Line Out" (volume
independent), plus facilities for charging the iPod from the Vehicle's
electrical system. The drawback is I get odd noise from the iPod when it
is
charging (ground loops / differences in ground potential causing noise to
get carried over the audio shields).
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Though it may just be a poorly designed/cheaply made adapter, I'm thinking
from this that you may actually have a ground loop problem somewhere else in
the system that is causing all these anomolies to occur, as I mentioned
above. I would definitely be sure you don't have one before condemning
components.
Roland M.
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mdx400(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: XPD-4K + C90 with PAC Unilink Aux Input Adaptor - A bit Squ |
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| Quote: | From: "Randy Visentine" <randyman(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: XPD-4K + C90 with PAC Unilink Aux Input Adaptor
- A bit Squirrely???
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 16:28:10 -0500
Maybe I'm mistaken, but everything I have read indicates that any iPod
adaptor that "Takes Over" the iPod from the Head-Unit locks out the iPod's
controls (maybe this is an iPod issue?).
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Yep, explained in my previous email 
| Quote: | And I'm not sure if that XA-110IP
box will even work on older Unilink systems (it says for 2006 and newer
units - I guess Sony "Fixed" the Unilink Protocol for the new units, but
"Broke" it's backwards compatibility for older units?). If only a new Sony
HU (with a readable display) would work with the XDP4k
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It *should* work. But really that phrase could be used for all UniLink
products except where specific compatibility issues are noted by Sony.
However in this case I think Sony put the silly disclaimer about 2006+
because they didn't want to deal with people with older units [insert
rolleyes smiley here, lol]. Many people have reported using the XA-110iP on
older UniLink HUs without problems. However it does use full remote mode
and navigating the iPod on a UniLink head (which was never meant for
navigating much more than 10 CDs in a changer or two) is extremely
difficult, yes. This goes for any brand of iPod integration adapter for any
brand of aftermarket or factory HU that does text display on the HU--because
they all use full remote mode the iPod itself becomes sort of like a server,
slaved to the adapter and no adjustments can be made on the iPod.
Yet one more reason among thousands, why iPod stinks really, but that's
beside the point I guess.
| Quote: | On the noise - The XDP and C90 *already* have dedicated 8Ga Grounds (the
iPod charging wires are tacked on with the XDP - so its ground potential is
identical), and all 8 system grounds terminate at a single point ("Star
Grounding" to an unused 17mm Seat Belt Bolt in the X-Tra Cab).
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Well perhaps I should withdraw the previous ground loop suspiscions but as
I'm sure you know, ground loops are quite tricky and can be present anywhere
and can be very hard to eliminate
Roland M.
_________________________________________________________________
| | - The Matronics XDP4000X-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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mdx400(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: XPD-4K + C90 with PAC Unilink Aux Input Adaptor - A bit Squ |
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| Quote: | From: "Randy Visentine" <randyman(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: XPD-4K + C90 with PAC Unilink Aux Input Adaptor
- A bit Squirrely???
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 16:49:35 -0500
One thing that scares me a little - That "Connects2" adaptor has a
disclaimer that says "Note: Not suitable for use in conjunction with a CD
changer, or with 1st generation iPods."
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The simple remote mode Connects2 adapter is their "002" or number two iPod
interface, and yep it just offers the simple controls with no
text/time/track info and leaves control on the iPod. Personally I think
these adapters are nearly useless because they cost as much as full
integration adapters but they don't really do all that much more than an aux
input adapter, which is usually cheaper (e.g. XA-300). But if you think
it's worth it, then by all means. Note that Connects2 lost their USA
distributor but they got a new one recently plus I think PAC has some of
their products, rebadged and in black (instead of silver) "little boxes"
I don't think PAC offers the #2 iPod adapter from Connects2 though.
| Quote: | I'm not sure if this means you'd need something like a XA-C30 to use a
CD-Changer (since the iPod adaptor eats up your Unilink connnection), or if
there are issues with passing the adaptor's protocol through such Unilink
units (or even passing through a XDP-4k). Any ideas?
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That's exactly what it means. My Connects2 Network Walkman adapter works
pretty much fine with my XA-U40 (predecessor to the XA-C30) MCA. So as long
as you have an MCA it should work with other devices. Again emphasise the
"should" because there really aren't any guarantees apart from the
possibility of returning the device if the retailer allows it.
Roland M.
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
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